09.15.07

taxes

Posted in life at 12:32 pm by Brandon

I really didn’t plan on getting quite this mad about the Michigan budget. Really, I didn’t. Lately, though, I’ve been watching several news outlets and opinion sections wherein people are whining about how new taxes are the bane of the existence of Michigan’s fair citizens. Last I saw, the tax hike on the board currently proposes a graduated income tax hike from 3.9 to 4.6 percent. That translates to a tax increase of $350 dollars for a taxable income of 50,000 dollars per annum.

I could spin a logically compelling, numerically heavy description of why I think this tax increase is a good idea. But, I won’t. There’re some people out there who are so opposed to taxes that they would bitch and moan about the oppressive burden this 350 dollar per year tax increase would cause to Michiganians in this trying economic time. Instead, I suggest that whoever wants to pay this tax increase get to pay it and whoever doesn’t want to pay it…you’re free to just go on contributing the minimum amount of taxes currently required.

Here’s the hitch…those of you who don’t want to pay the tax, you’ll have to continue using only those services which are still around after budget cuts.

Those of us who pay greater taxes, well, we’ll be able to send our kids to schools where kids have books and desks and other extraordinary luxuries of this kind. We’ll have a classroom sized that are around 20-25, we’ll have well paid teachers and school transportation. When there’s an emergency, we’ll know that after we call 911 an emergency service provider will be there in less than, say, 90 minutes. When our house is burning, there’ll be a fire department who cares. We’ll have city parks that are taken care of and public transportation to help those of us who don’t have cars get to their jobs.

Those of you who don’t want to pay taxes will have the incredible fortune of saving their 350 bucks a year. Now, granted, your children will attend schools where classrooms have about 40 students in the room, and of course there’s the minor inconvenience that about 15 of the students in the room will not be able to sit in desks but will be relegated to finding a spot of floor to sit on…but that’s a small price to pay for your saved tax dollars, isn’t it? Oh, sure, you’ll have to wait an hour or so longer for the fire brigade when your house is burning, perhaps you can spend part of the extra money you save on taxes on some buckets in case you have a fire. Your neighborhoods will be flooded with the homeless because they’ll no longer have a place to be cared for in mental health facilities (many homeless have mental health issues)…but what’s a bum or two, right?

Perhaps if those of you who hate taxes so damn much wouldn’t think of paying taxes so much as a tax and more as buying an asset for yourself, you wouldn’t get your panties in such a twist. After all, we all know how much you like to buy things for yourself…if you didn’t care so much about it, you wouldn’t be so wound up over keeping that extra 350 bucks a year.

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    Stefania said,

    September 16, 2007 at 9:36 am

    I understand that you feel strongly about these taxes and appropriate budgets for education in our state (I’m a Michiganian, too). It only makes sense that you’re extremely concerned about your wife and child’s future and I don’t blame you for that. I’m concerned for this state as a whole but have been clueless on what would be the key to turning our economy around.

    I’ll admit that I am not extremely educated in this area of government and taxes and my guess is that you have more education than I do. However, I took a couple Economics classes at Walsh College (I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the school) when I was getting my Masters in Accounting and I found them very interesting and they gave me at least a little more insight as to what is going on when I had absolutely no clue before. From what I learned in those classes, I just want to ask your opinion on another standpoint that I’ve concluded on what little I know.

    Is it possible that by lowering taxes, the economy could prosper? Our residents could take their extra money and spend it and/or start businesses that create more jobs which then gives these now employed people income that they pay taxes on. The low tax rate is attractive to outsiders and people start moving back to Michigan. With new people and new income, the lower tax rate could still provide our government with the money it needs for all our programs.

    Now, of course, this wouldn’t be a quick fix. And maybe this new tax would be. I just don’t know how in the long run more and more taxes will be good for the state. Our children might be getting an education but their only option afterward may be to move out of state to find a job because Michigan won’t be an attractive place to start a business or to find a job that still provides them with enough money to live after taxes. Plus, with increasing taxes, there’s a possibility of more and more people trying to find ways around paying thus defeating the whole purpose. However, patient people waiting for my theory to work may be hard to come by.

    So, I guess I just want to know if any of this makes sense to you because I know I could be totally off here. And I know this might go completely against everything in your liberal roots. So, if you completely disagree, please explain because all these different theories really interest me. Thanks for taking the time to read.

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    DHFabian said,

    September 16, 2007 at 11:00 pm

    Taxes per se isn’t the problem. Paying taxes is a fundamental responsibility, and we all benefit from them. The reason for the outrage is the increasing unfairness of the tax system, and the misuse by government of those taxes.
    Corporations and the richest 1% have enjoyed massive tax breaks over the past quarter-century; who do you think must pick up the tab, so to speak?
    Government spending certainly hasn’t decreased. Consider the “tax relief” handed off to our wealthiest corporations every year. The “justification” is always that it will be used for job creation. And indeed, corporations have created jobs—but not in the US! Our jobs continue to be “outsourced”, and we have to pay for it. Meanwhile, more people sink into severe poverty, and there is no help for them, now that the welfare system was “reformed”. Granted, they or their children could be called upon to give their livesfor their country, or they could serve their country only to end up joining the growing ranks of homeless veterans on the streets (remember, homeless shelters have been defunded). Well, you get the point. Our taxes are not used today for the common good, and to help our fellow citizens in desperate need, but only to satisfy the greed of the rich and powerful.

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    Brandon said,

    September 17, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Stephania,

    You asked:

    Is it possible that by lowering taxes, the economy could prosper? Our residents could take their extra money and spend it and/or start businesses that create more jobs which then gives these now employed people income that they pay taxes on. The low tax rate is attractive to outsiders and people start moving back to Michigan. With new people and new income, the lower tax rate could still provide our government with the money it needs for all our programs.

    Good question. My answer is that I doubt that tax savings would substantively help accomplish these things.

    First, nobody in Michigan is, with any success, advocating a decrease in taxes. Our taxes are low as it is. That said, the meager personal income tax savings (remember 350 dollars per 50k of salary) isn’t enough for people to be starting random businesses that are going to add substantively to the employment rate. I will grant you that 350 dollars MIGHT be enough to help boost sales in the state for certain local products, but let us also remember that many companies doing business in Michigan aren’t local.

    Second, while I’ll grant you that a low tax rate is, on its face, attractive to would-be Michigan residents, other things that go along with low tax rates are not attractive to potential Michiganians. For example, overcrowded prisons, classrooms, and parks; earlier parole for habitual offenders; fewer public services are also related to low taxes. Frankly, I’d prefer to pay for certain services up front.

    The fact is, we have low taxes, but new people aren’t moving in. I can’t see the logic in lowering taxes even further in order to woo potential Michigan residents.

    I’m not advocating a long-term tax increase. Set a sunset on tax hikes. That’s fine with me, but in reality we’re currently underfunded. We need for corporations to stop getting tax breaks and then outsourcing jobs. We need the wealthiest of Michigan’s residents to pay the fair share of taxes they deserve to pay, given that part of their wealth has been generated by the less wealthy.

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taxes

Posted in life at 12:32 pm by Brandon

I really didn’t plan on getting quite this mad about the Michigan budget. Really, I didn’t. Lately, though, I’ve been watching several news outlets and opinion sections wherein people are whining about how new taxes are the bane of the existence of Michigan’s fair citizens. Last I saw, the tax hike on the board currently proposes a graduated income tax hike from 3.9 to 4.6 percent. That translates to a tax increase of $350 dollars for a taxable income of 50,000 dollars per annum.

I could spin a logically compelling, numerically heavy description of why I think this tax increase is a good idea. But, I won’t. There’re some people out there who are so opposed to taxes that they would bitch and moan about the oppressive burden this 350 dollar per year tax increase would cause to Michiganians in this trying economic time. Instead, I suggest that whoever wants to pay this tax increase get to pay it and whoever doesn’t want to pay it…you’re free to just go on contributing the minimum amount of taxes currently required.

Here’s the hitch…those of you who don’t want to pay the tax, you’ll have to continue using only those services which are still around after budget cuts.

Those of us who pay greater taxes, well, we’ll be able to send our kids to schools where kids have books and desks and other extraordinary luxuries of this kind. We’ll have a classroom sized that are around 20-25, we’ll have well paid teachers and school transportation. When there’s an emergency, we’ll know that after we call 911 an emergency service provider will be there in less than, say, 90 minutes. When our house is burning, there’ll be a fire department who cares. We’ll have city parks that are taken care of and public transportation to help those of us who don’t have cars get to their jobs.

Those of you who don’t want to pay taxes will have the incredible fortune of saving their 350 bucks a year. Now, granted, your children will attend schools where classrooms have about 40 students in the room, and of course there’s the minor inconvenience that about 15 of the students in the room will not be able to sit in desks but will be relegated to finding a spot of floor to sit on…but that’s a small price to pay for your saved tax dollars, isn’t it? Oh, sure, you’ll have to wait an hour or so longer for the fire brigade when your house is burning, perhaps you can spend part of the extra money you save on taxes on some buckets in case you have a fire. Your neighborhoods will be flooded with the homeless because they’ll no longer have a place to be cared for in mental health facilities (many homeless have mental health issues)…but what’s a bum or two, right?

Perhaps if those of you who hate taxes so damn much wouldn’t think of paying taxes so much as a tax and more as buying an asset for yourself, you wouldn’t get your panties in such a twist. After all, we all know how much you like to buy things for yourself…if you didn’t care so much about it, you wouldn’t be so wound up over keeping that extra 350 bucks a year.

Tags: , ,

Trackback URL »

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3 Comments »

  1. Sign up at gravatar.com to have your own image

    Stefania said,

    September 16, 2007 at 9:36 am

    I understand that you feel strongly about these taxes and appropriate budgets for education in our state (I’m a Michiganian, too). It only makes sense that you’re extremely concerned about your wife and child’s future and I don’t blame you for that. I’m concerned for this state as a whole but have been clueless on what would be the key to turning our economy around.

    I’ll admit that I am not extremely educated in this area of government and taxes and my guess is that you have more education than I do. However, I took a couple Economics classes at Walsh College (I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the school) when I was getting my Masters in Accounting and I found them very interesting and they gave me at least a little more insight as to what is going on when I had absolutely no clue before. From what I learned in those classes, I just want to ask your opinion on another standpoint that I’ve concluded on what little I know.

    Is it possible that by lowering taxes, the economy could prosper? Our residents could take their extra money and spend it and/or start businesses that create more jobs which then gives these now employed people income that they pay taxes on. The low tax rate is attractive to outsiders and people start moving back to Michigan. With new people and new income, the lower tax rate could still provide our government with the money it needs for all our programs.

    Now, of course, this wouldn’t be a quick fix. And maybe this new tax would be. I just don’t know how in the long run more and more taxes will be good for the state. Our children might be getting an education but their only option afterward may be to move out of state to find a job because Michigan won’t be an attractive place to start a business or to find a job that still provides them with enough money to live after taxes. Plus, with increasing taxes, there’s a possibility of more and more people trying to find ways around paying thus defeating the whole purpose. However, patient people waiting for my theory to work may be hard to come by.

    So, I guess I just want to know if any of this makes sense to you because I know I could be totally off here. And I know this might go completely against everything in your liberal roots. So, if you completely disagree, please explain because all these different theories really interest me. Thanks for taking the time to read.

  2. Sign up at gravatar.com to have your own image

    DHFabian said,

    September 16, 2007 at 11:00 pm

    Taxes per se isn’t the problem. Paying taxes is a fundamental responsibility, and we all benefit from them. The reason for the outrage is the increasing unfairness of the tax system, and the misuse by government of those taxes.
    Corporations and the richest 1% have enjoyed massive tax breaks over the past quarter-century; who do you think must pick up the tab, so to speak?
    Government spending certainly hasn’t decreased. Consider the “tax relief” handed off to our wealthiest corporations every year. The “justification” is always that it will be used for job creation. And indeed, corporations have created jobs—but not in the US! Our jobs continue to be “outsourced”, and we have to pay for it. Meanwhile, more people sink into severe poverty, and there is no help for them, now that the welfare system was “reformed”. Granted, they or their children could be called upon to give their livesfor their country, or they could serve their country only to end up joining the growing ranks of homeless veterans on the streets (remember, homeless shelters have been defunded). Well, you get the point. Our taxes are not used today for the common good, and to help our fellow citizens in desperate need, but only to satisfy the greed of the rich and powerful.

  3. Sign up at gravatar.com to have your own image

    Brandon said,

    September 17, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Stephania,

    You asked:

    Is it possible that by lowering taxes, the economy could prosper? Our residents could take their extra money and spend it and/or start businesses that create more jobs which then gives these now employed people income that they pay taxes on. The low tax rate is attractive to outsiders and people start moving back to Michigan. With new people and new income, the lower tax rate could still provide our government with the money it needs for all our programs.

    Good question. My answer is that I doubt that tax savings would substantively help accomplish these things.

    First, nobody in Michigan is, with any success, advocating a decrease in taxes. Our taxes are low as it is. That said, the meager personal income tax savings (remember 350 dollars per 50k of salary) isn’t enough for people to be starting random businesses that are going to add substantively to the employment rate. I will grant you that 350 dollars MIGHT be enough to help boost sales in the state for certain local products, but let us also remember that many companies doing business in Michigan aren’t local.

    Second, while I’ll grant you that a low tax rate is, on its face, attractive to would-be Michigan residents, other things that go along with low tax rates are not attractive to potential Michiganians. For example, overcrowded prisons, classrooms, and parks; earlier parole for habitual offenders; fewer public services are also related to low taxes. Frankly, I’d prefer to pay for certain services up front.

    The fact is, we have low taxes, but new people aren’t moving in. I can’t see the logic in lowering taxes even further in order to woo potential Michigan residents.

    I’m not advocating a long-term tax increase. Set a sunset on tax hikes. That’s fine with me, but in reality we’re currently underfunded. We need for corporations to stop getting tax breaks and then outsourcing jobs. We need the wealthiest of Michigan’s residents to pay the fair share of taxes they deserve to pay, given that part of their wealth has been generated by the less wealthy.

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