10.21.05
Posted in christ-haunted life at 12:57 pm by
Steve Chastain of Stupid Church People made a comment that got me thinking about the phenomena of youth rally altar calls. It’s been a while since I whipped my self into a ‘pissed-off-about-contemporary-Christian-white-cracker-ass-ghetto-cultre’ froth, so I thought I’d take a whack at it again.
Because this story is kind of about me, I’m filing it under christ-haunted life. I’m a little reticent to do that because I’m pretty sure the vignette I’m about to share has little to do with Christ Haunting…or maybe it does after all. That was cryptic, I know. Let me get on to the point.
Altar calls, as I’ve said before, piss me off. To me they feel like a contrived “social influence-fest” wherein, various church or youth group ‘in-group’ members use coersion to effectively pressure people into doing things in order to appear to be spiritual.
The layers of coersion at youth rallies and gatherings of that sort are incredibly insidious. First of all, students, typically highschool age, head off to a camp or a convention center for an extended period of time in which there is relatively limited adult supervision. So, these kids are basically off on their own. I don’t have a huge problem with this, per se, except that it’s rare, I think, that the main by-product of these conventions is actually “people coming to Christ.” The main by-products are, more often, kids trying cigarettes and alcohol for the first time, and random and wanton hook-ups between people who have no business ‘hooking up’ (and use your imagination to figure out exactly what that means.) Anyway, that’s all sort of an aside to my main point.
My biggest problem with youth rally altar calls is that they’re fuckin’ stupid. Here’s the typical drill:
- A big dog and pony show happens on stage with lots of flashing lights, big name speakers, cool bands with attractive band members, praise songs with lots of actions.
- Once you’ve been seduced by the dimming of the lights, the flashing of the occasional strobe, and you’ve got a head-rush because you’ve been raising your hands in praise so frequently, it’s time for the speaker.
- Enter stage left: Dynamic speaker. The goal of this speaker, to capitalize on the sleep deprived, overly emotional, and nearly frenzied, state that the youth have been whipped into with the overarching goal of getting as many people as possible to come down at the end of the presentation and “Come to Christ.”
- Coming to Christ will be operationally defined as publicly getting up from one’s seat and coming down in front of the stage and swaying slowly in time to the gentle “Coming to Christ” music (trademark, all rights reserved, copyright infringement will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law.)
- Coming to Christ must be done publicly. If it were not so, you would not be able to display your moral superiority over and above those who are sitting in the audience.
- Once the area between the front row and the stage is so full of people slowly swaying (with their arms raised, holding their friends hands, or openly embracing random others) that it appears from a distance that a giant jellyfish has landed in front of said stage, enough people have ‘come to Christ’
- After the jellyfish swaying incident, all of the ‘comers to Christ’ will be shuttled down to a room so that they might be prayed with, and put on a mailing list–Christ, like Santa it turns out, needs your address.
I remember ‘coming to Christ.’ It was really emotional. Sort of. I was in 9th grade, and I made the long moral superiority walk. I became holy that day. I remember going forward because my friends went forward, and, because the convention I was at was so large, I didn’t want to lose them. I even managed to muster some tears and put my arms around a few girls up in the middle of the vacillating jellyfish.
The thing that pisses me off most about it, though, is that it is in no way really about Jesus. Now, that’s not to say that it can’t be for some individuals, but for the organizers…I’m just not sure it’s about anything spiritual.
You see, they’ve created an altar call to be a numbers game. The bigger the gelatinous orb in the front of the room, the more successful the conference, the better the speaker. Tell me, what’s so holy about standing up in a group of people? There’s nothing holy about it. There’s nothing particularly holy about filling up the front of an auditorium, either.
The thing that really gets my panties in a wad is that each year people come back and report how many people ‘came to Christ’ at the conference. As if people coming to Christ, and all that that means in the context of an altar call (which is basically nothing more than a G-rated orgy of social influence), actually has something to do with people growing in their faith.
I’ve got news for you. You can grow in your faith with your ass in your seat. You needn’t take a walk of shame up to the front of the room for Jesus to change your life.
Likewise, when people speak of the mega-church movment and use the argument–as they often do over at Greg’s blog, The Parish–that we shouldn’t say these places/things/practices are bad, because, after all, people are coming to Christ, I get pissed. What does it mean for people to ‘come to Christ’? Have we really reduced that down to the point where coming to Christ means that you’ve succumed to social pressure and you stood, once, in the front of the church with some people doing the holy jellyfish sway dance. So, the argument goes, because altar calls have huge numbers of people coming forward, God is moving. Again, I’ve got news for you. That might not be so much about God moving as much as it’s about the power of conformity and social pressure. The altar call has, ironically, become an idol in and of itself.
Is that really all it means to ‘come to Christ’? To conform to the norms of holiness of a religious group. To stand in front of an auditorium and sway with our arms around our friends. To be perceived as holy.
Somehow, I doubt it. I doubt it a lot.
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Posted in christ-haunted life at 12:57 pm by
Steve Chastain of Stupid Church People made a comment that got me thinking about the phenomena of youth rally altar calls. It’s been a while since I whipped my self into a ‘pissed-off-about-contemporary-Christian-white-cracker-ass-ghetto-cultre’ froth, so I thought I’d take a whack at it again.
Because this story is kind of about me, I’m filing it under christ-haunted life. I’m a little reticent to do that because I’m pretty sure the vignette I’m about to share has little to do with Christ Haunting…or maybe it does after all. That was cryptic, I know. Let me get on to the point.
Altar calls, as I’ve said before, piss me off. To me they feel like a contrived “social influence-fest” wherein, various church or youth group ‘in-group’ members use coersion to effectively pressure people into doing things in order to appear to be spiritual.
The layers of coersion at youth rallies and gatherings of that sort are incredibly insidious. First of all, students, typically highschool age, head off to a camp or a convention center for an extended period of time in which there is relatively limited adult supervision. So, these kids are basically off on their own. I don’t have a huge problem with this, per se, except that it’s rare, I think, that the main by-product of these conventions is actually “people coming to Christ.” The main by-products are, more often, kids trying cigarettes and alcohol for the first time, and random and wanton hook-ups between people who have no business ‘hooking up’ (and use your imagination to figure out exactly what that means.) Anyway, that’s all sort of an aside to my main point.
My biggest problem with youth rally altar calls is that they’re fuckin’ stupid. Here’s the typical drill:
- A big dog and pony show happens on stage with lots of flashing lights, big name speakers, cool bands with attractive band members, praise songs with lots of actions.
- Once you’ve been seduced by the dimming of the lights, the flashing of the occasional strobe, and you’ve got a head-rush because you’ve been raising your hands in praise so frequently, it’s time for the speaker.
- Enter stage left: Dynamic speaker. The goal of this speaker, to capitalize on the sleep deprived, overly emotional, and nearly frenzied, state that the youth have been whipped into with the overarching goal of getting as many people as possible to come down at the end of the presentation and “Come to Christ.”
- Coming to Christ will be operationally defined as publicly getting up from one’s seat and coming down in front of the stage and swaying slowly in time to the gentle “Coming to Christ” music (trademark, all rights reserved, copyright infringement will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law.)
- Coming to Christ must be done publicly. If it were not so, you would not be able to display your moral superiority over and above those who are sitting in the audience.
- Once the area between the front row and the stage is so full of people slowly swaying (with their arms raised, holding their friends hands, or openly embracing random others) that it appears from a distance that a giant jellyfish has landed in front of said stage, enough people have ‘come to Christ’
- After the jellyfish swaying incident, all of the ‘comers to Christ’ will be shuttled down to a room so that they might be prayed with, and put on a mailing list–Christ, like Santa it turns out, needs your address.
I remember ‘coming to Christ.’ It was really emotional. Sort of. I was in 9th grade, and I made the long moral superiority walk. I became holy that day. I remember going forward because my friends went forward, and, because the convention I was at was so large, I didn’t want to lose them. I even managed to muster some tears and put my arms around a few girls up in the middle of the vacillating jellyfish.
The thing that pisses me off most about it, though, is that it is in no way really about Jesus. Now, that’s not to say that it can’t be for some individuals, but for the organizers…I’m just not sure it’s about anything spiritual.
You see, they’ve created an altar call to be a numbers game. The bigger the gelatinous orb in the front of the room, the more successful the conference, the better the speaker. Tell me, what’s so holy about standing up in a group of people? There’s nothing holy about it. There’s nothing particularly holy about filling up the front of an auditorium, either.
The thing that really gets my panties in a wad is that each year people come back and report how many people ‘came to Christ’ at the conference. As if people coming to Christ, and all that that means in the context of an altar call (which is basically nothing more than a G-rated orgy of social influence), actually has something to do with people growing in their faith.
I’ve got news for you. You can grow in your faith with your ass in your seat. You needn’t take a walk of shame up to the front of the room for Jesus to change your life.
Likewise, when people speak of the mega-church movment and use the argument–as they often do over at Greg’s blog, The Parish–that we shouldn’t say these places/things/practices are bad, because, after all, people are coming to Christ, I get pissed. What does it mean for people to ‘come to Christ’? Have we really reduced that down to the point where coming to Christ means that you’ve succumed to social pressure and you stood, once, in the front of the church with some people doing the holy jellyfish sway dance. So, the argument goes, because altar calls have huge numbers of people coming forward, God is moving. Again, I’ve got news for you. That might not be so much about God moving as much as it’s about the power of conformity and social pressure. The altar call has, ironically, become an idol in and of itself.
Is that really all it means to ‘come to Christ’? To conform to the norms of holiness of a religious group. To stand in front of an auditorium and sway with our arms around our friends. To be perceived as holy.
Somehow, I doubt it. I doubt it a lot.
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Rivikah said,
October 21, 2005 at 3:28 pm
I always hated altar calls at youth retreats. I never actually went up for one. They just felt too fake. Besides, I wasn’t close enough to any of my peers to either care what they thought or expect that they would notice if I did take that walk.
I experienced some with a slightly different premise than the one you describe however. One time we were just asked to raise our hands (while everyone’s eyes were supposed to be closed). Another time only people wishing to dedicate their lives to the ministry were invited forwards. Still another time it was an invitation to pray, alone or in groups, with the front of the hall arranged to give groups a space to congregate.
What do you think of alternative altar calls like these? Some of them are still completely a game of numbers. Some of them use the emotional states of the participants to make them effective. But I think some of them result from speakers saying “Man, this formula is a manipulative numbers game. What can we do instead?”
ninjanun said,
October 21, 2005 at 3:50 pm
The thing that really gets my panties in a wad is
You wear panties?!
Benjamin said,
October 21, 2005 at 4:06 pm
I’ve got the pictures.
Sorry Brandon, I promised not to tell….
Kevin said,
October 21, 2005 at 6:09 pm
According to Jim Wallis, the altar call was invented by Charles Finney back in the 1800s. Finney actually used the practice so that he could collect the names and addresses of his converts, so that he could plug them into the abolitionist movement. That puts a really different spin on the practice. Too bad it’s used as nothing more than manipulation now.
And, yes, Brandon wears panties. Usually he goes with Powerpuff Girls, but I’ve seen him prancing around in Supergirl. Me? I’ve got on Lion King.
Shteevie said,
October 21, 2005 at 6:43 pm
The purpose of the altar call is to make a public declaration of faith in Jesus Christ. I don’t care about what kind of paper the present is wrapped in, I care more about the gift inside.
Still, many of the points you raise were actually raised by Frank Zindler of American Atheists. He wrote an essay on the role of music and spectacle in evangelism and how it’s often used to get people into a state of mind where they’d be more willing to accept the gospel.
Actually, I believe that modern churches put too heavy of an emphasis on music, especially in light of the fact that the music ministry is responsible for less than 1 per cent of converts. Most church music is boring and badly performed. I’d rather forego it. Maybe just have one or two hymns. We don’t have to sing 23 hymns every Sunday so that we don’t hurt the pianist’s feelings - even if she is 93 years old and suffers from arthritis.
Psychologists might say that all that music and spectacle may make people more receptive but the Bible says that the word will not return to God void. I’d like to see more of an emphasis on gospel preaching and the word and less on the flashy lights.
Mind you, if Jaci Velasquez was singing, and if she was still single, I’d be there waving my MARRY ME JACI sign.
Mmmm, that girl is so beautiful.
ninjanun said,
October 21, 2005 at 7:48 pm
Jaci is already remarried? I heard she got divorced not too long ago. I agree, she’s quite lovely.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but actually, I think we could do with less preaching as well.
Lord knows, most of what preachers drone on and on about can be summed up in 20 minutes or less.
Why not just stick to the Word?
Em said,
October 22, 2005 at 12:26 am
Yes. That is exactly how I remember those church camps being–only I tend to use words like ‘brainwashing’ to describe the experience.
Overstimulated, with practically no sleep and no time to reflect, wound to the breaking point, with no way of understanding that this religious ecstasy is really just induced hysteria…
Yeah, I’ve been there. Next time someone asks me why I want nothing to do with organized religion, I’m going to point them here, because you’ve said it better than I ever managed.
(Uh, hi. Been lurking around here for a long time, but this is the first time I’ve piped up.)
juanito said,
October 22, 2005 at 12:45 am
Kids come back from camp and crash from the huge emotional high. Then they are flung back into the daily life they needed saving from, and without the overpowering feeling of their “salvation” making them glow, they fall into their old habits.
So then they’re convinced not that the altar call was fake, but that all of Christianity is a scam.
“Saved? Been there, done that.”
maghretta said,
October 22, 2005 at 1:51 am
Hi, that’s gross.
Why do people go to youth retreats, and why do churches have them?
The shagging, drinking, and adolescent angst are about all I’ve ever heard of youth group events in general; it sounds a grim scene.
Christop said,
October 22, 2005 at 3:34 am
I have a feeling that the altar call actually minimises the effect of whatever the speaker said before it. As in, if they just didn’t have the altar call, maybe the people who were challenged by what the speaker had said would change something about how they live, whereas if they get to go up for the altar call they get to feel better with out actually changing?
Shteevie said,
October 22, 2005 at 9:14 am
Jaci divorced?!?!?!
* is so upset he starts bawling hysterically and throws his computer across the room *
DAMMIT!!! I wanted Jaci to stay married forever. She is so lovely and pure and I’m positive she doesn’t even need to use the bathroom. That’s how pure she is.
Hey Jaci, if you married me, you’d never get divorced. That’s because everyday I’d wake up and the first thing I’d do is fall on my knees and thank the Lord for giving me a wife as lovely as you (and all them cinnamon freckles) and you could do your music and I would write my novels and we’d go to IHOP ever Thursday and you could move up here to Canada with me and…
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I hate divorce.
Shteevie said,
October 22, 2005 at 9:16 am
Seriously, this wrecks my whole day.
Her Aphrodite-like history’s loveliest woman beauty aside, I’ve always admired Jaci for being a steadfast defender of sexual purity. Now this happens and it just shocks me and saddens me.
dorsey said,
October 22, 2005 at 11:38 am
We talked about this at http://notmywill.blogspot.com/2005/10/this-is-one-freakin-long-post.html.
I agree with Juanito. The end result is the throwing out the baby with the bathwater—a rejection of Christ, not just the idiocy carried out in His name.
Good post.
MMM said,
October 22, 2005 at 12:57 pm
AMMMen, brother. And yes, you got bookmmmarked.
Shannon said,
October 22, 2005 at 1:37 pm
Personally, I find that altar calls - done a certain way - can be helpful. Sometimes if you’re on the fence about these things, it’s good to have somewhat of a public announcement of it to actually get you to make the plunge. I went to a yearly conference twice when I was in high school, and some of the altar calls I went up for and some I didn’t. (It might have helped that our youth group was run by a very quirky, honest, vulnerable guy who supervised us well, truly cared about us, and we knew would be disappointed in us if we faked it.) The ones I find truly helpful are those who ask people who want to know Christ to come up and pray with someone. None of this “praying afterwards” business, but right then and there. If you know you have to pray with someone right now, you’re going to be less likely to fake it.
As for counting the amount of people who come up to an altar call as those who have “come to Christ” as a result of the conference, that’s disgusting.
Ian said,
October 22, 2005 at 5:54 pm
Like Em, longtime lurker, first time writer.
My experience, like Em’s and Juanito’s has been that church camp produces an altered state of consciousness. An ecstatic high followed by a painful crash after your return, a crash for which the camp staff almost certainly has not prepared you. (shame on them) Likewise altar calls would not exist if their appeal was purely cognitive.
Perhaps an analogy can be drawn to an older, better established practice in the Christian tradition — fasting. Not eating has weird psychological effects regardless of where you are spiritually, like bible camp. But if you’re prepared spiritually going in, such practices can have a deep effect on your walk with God.
I’ve had good experiences with both altar calls and bible camp, in the sense that some lasting spiritual changes came about. Perhaps that’s unusual. If leaders stopped taking a head count of “# souls saved” at the front as a sign of success and instead looked for lasting changes in people’s lives, negative experiences would likely be a lot more rare. (although it’s hard to imagine an altar call devoid of coercion)
Ian said,
October 22, 2005 at 6:22 pm
On second thought, there’s a big difference between practices I use to manipulate my own emotional state and strategies used by others to tinker with my emotions. But to some degree the use of such strategies is unavoidable. (eg. deliberate hymn choice) Might things like altar calls be ethical only if a way can be found of being above board about what’s going on?
Mac said,
October 22, 2005 at 6:52 pm
Shteevie, I’m not sure what your hang up on divorce is and how in the world it relates to sexual purity. But, I will say that if I was married to Jaci I probably wouldn’t be going to IHOP or waking up every morning praying out of thankfulness for her. I would probably be enjoying her perfect (I’m guessing) naked body as often as possible and let my general enjoyment of her hottness be proof of my thankfulness.
Brandon, great post. Haven’t been around in a while. Forgot how much I like you thoughts. Anyhow, I think I “Came to Jesus” (which by the way is a significant improvement from I “Came in Jesus”) about five different times in my life. Does that make me a social conformist whore? And why is my post so sex ridden?
Brandon said,
October 22, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Thanks everybody!
I was away for the first part of the weekend so I haven’t had a chance to see your comments.
First, yes, I wear panties. God knows how he knows, but Kevin was right about what kind.
Second, welcome to you first time lurkers who’ve gone on the record. It’s a pleasure to have all of you around.
Nicole said,
October 23, 2005 at 12:34 am
I think it’s an attitude about ‘conversion’ in general that is to blame.
My own personal story involves being goaded into saying the prayer at 11 years old. It goes something like this:
Old man interim arrogant pastor asks everyone in my small rural Sunday School class who isn’t a Christian ‘yet’ to raise their hand. I raise my hand, I’m the only one, the youngest one, and I feel like a jerk.
Old arrogant interim pastor asks, “Do you love Jesus, Nicole?” I say, “Yes.” Old arrogant interim pastor says, “Will you come down front today, after the sermon, Nicole?” Uh, I guess.
I went home in tears avoiding the altar call, ended up being cornered by arrogant interim pastor at lunch in a restaurant after church, and my parents had to tell Old arrogant interim pastor to beg off.
I had issues for years, and then when.n I really did become a Christian, didn’t tell anyone because I had ALREADY been baptized and such. So, I think it’s a pervasive warped attitude about faith that makes it about some fake committment rather than a journey, a walk, or something like that.
On another note, I’m not typically easily offended. But the perseveration about Jaci Valesquez in a sexual manner is really pissing me off. I guess, I’m thinking..Wow, here are a lot of intelligent men probably close to my age that value this other woman, not for who she is, her haunting lyrics, or musical ability..but because she has nice freckles and a good ass. Guess it makes me feel like I am not taken seriously. /rant.
Zeke said,
October 23, 2005 at 8:49 am
And, yes, Brandon wears panties. Usually he goes with Powerpuff Girls, but I’ve seen him prancing around in Supergirl. Me? I’ve got on Lion King.
I put my lightsaber in my Luke Skywalker BVDs.
Zeke said,
October 23, 2005 at 11:15 am
On another note, I’m not typically easily offended. But the perseveration about Jaci Valesquez in a sexual manner is really pissing me off.
Wow Nicole, I actually had to go look that up:
perseveration: 1. Uncontrollable repetition of a particular response, such as a word, phrase, or gesture, despite the absence or cessation of a stimulus, usually caused by brain injury or other organic disorder.
2. The tendency to continue or repeat an act or activity after the cessation of the original stimulus.
See? Do you think Jaci Velasquez could have expanded my vocabulary that way?
Zeke said,
October 23, 2005 at 11:20 am
And with regard to youth and these conversion events, our youth department lives for this emotional stuff. They even took the kids to a Benny Hinn event one time, against the senior pastor’s orders.
But look: the fact is that coming out of any of these evangelistic events–Harvest, Billy Graham, Raul Ries, etc.–only a small fraction of those who come down actually persist in faith. Jesus said it would be that way: some seeds fall in the rocky soil, on the trail, etcetera.
And Nicole, your experience is just a perfect example of the stupid church event-creation that makes appearances so damn important that a pastor would be willing to browbeat a kid to make them happen. What a load of crap.
Paul M. Martin said,
October 23, 2005 at 12:39 pm
Imo, you’ve nailed a truly important distinction which is rarely made: the difference between emotional - even imaginative - and spiritual experience.
Many Christians, I’m convinced, confuse the two. And many have never really had a spiritual experience - or, more likely, don’t recognize the authentic ones they do have - and are clueless about how to begin to get underway with a way of life that fosters genuine spiritual development.
Mac said,
October 23, 2005 at 7:29 pm
Nicole,
Your right. My apologies. Sometimes my base frat boy side comes out despite my best efforts at suppression.
goingape said,
October 23, 2005 at 8:55 pm
Apology accepted, Mac! I really appreciate your ability to accept feedback.
Zeke, I have to say I probably wouldn’t know “perseverate” if I weren’t in a grad psych program. Learned it a few years ago, myself.
And yeah, I try to avoid Jesus-y jellyfish these days. Although my mom takes her youth group on retreats, they rarely involve such tactics. But I think my youth minister mom would rather die than give any creedence to Benny Hinn
goingape said,
October 23, 2005 at 8:58 pm
And to show that I’m not a complete uptight turd…
Kevin happens to really like Wonder Woman panties…and we’ll leave it at that.
Shteevie said,
October 24, 2005 at 1:23 am
In my defense, I never said anything about Jaci’s ass. Only her cute cinnamon freckles. However, here is a poem I wrote about Jaci a long time ago:
I love Jaci Velasquez
because her skin’s so fair
and if I was her boyfriend
then I’d get to stroke her hair
I love Jaci Velasquez
because she has such haunting eyes
and the cutest little freckles
and those shapely girlish thighs
I love Jaci Velasquez
’cause her hips are red like rubies
and if I was her boyfriend
then I’d get to feel her arms wrapped around me.
Scout said,
October 24, 2005 at 10:25 am
Wow! Were at the same CRC youth “Convention” I was? Actually, I went to two. Year 1: I sat with my ass planted firmly in my seat during the alter call (you know - not being a fan of indoctrination and public displays in general). Year 2: knowing what to expect and having been compelled to attend by well-meaning parents, I skipped the whole thing entirely, laid out by the beach, and smoked my first (and second and third and fourth….) bowl of hash. Hard to explain the awesome tan to the parents when I got home, but it was worth it.
Sara
ninjanun said,
October 24, 2005 at 1:02 pm
No offense, Shteevie, but perhaps you should re-read that definition for perseveration again! :p
Shteevie said,
October 24, 2005 at 1:42 pm
I did. My poem, as per your reply, was meant to be tongue in cheek.
Best.
Kevin said,
October 25, 2005 at 12:37 am
I’m also quite a sucker for magic lassos.
Tony Myles said,
October 26, 2005 at 12:20 pm
I totally agree with you… I worked on a convention staff one year and had to be sure we had a speaker who could do an altar call to salvation (the first session) and one to ministry (the last session). Thankfully, I got to pick both of them… the former was a football coach from a Christian college who made a very clear challenge that wasn’t about the “ticket to heaven” game but about living a life of sacrifice for Christ. The latter, as well, was one of my mentors who confronted the convention staff on being sure we didn’t manipulate kids into ministry.
In any event, I have mixed views on the value of quiet commitments versus public ones… after all, they both have their flaws and God can use both. In the Scriptures we see people leaving behind everything to follow Jesus (publicly) as well as internal issues of changing hearts in private practices. In either event, I think we need to always have a skeptical eye while knowing that God can use our crooked ways to draw a straight line to Him.
Felius Dextrose said,
November 7, 2005 at 8:50 am
Pardon ?.
Is your sister emine ?.
Signed John “aye what pardon” Bentley.
Yow!
CactusFreek said,
July 19, 2006 at 9:41 am
Hi
)
Þ
I had a really bad night sleep last night, and it’s now 12:39am the next night and i’m soooo tired! So i’m aware my spelling will be really crap in the following blurb
You have interesting views & allthough i may not agree with some of it, i appreciate it. I am a Christian and i think about things such as what you’ve spoken about, but i don’t voice those thoughts as i don’t really want to appear to be putting a dampener on things. But i think about these things and mull them over in my head and at the end of the day, I appreciate Christ for all he is. And in the true nature of man, people and their actions will always let us down,hence we need to keep our eyes on Christ.
)
But the small change is still interesting to mull over as long as we don’t let it consume us
Carolina Juarez said,
September 11, 2006 at 2:35 pm
hey guys do u know if Jaci V has a boyfriend or anything about her present love life?i heard some rumors about a guy she grew up with in Houston and went to the prom with him?
Jake said,
October 2, 2006 at 6:26 pm
ya…. i agree people should be foucsing on there personal relationships with Christ instead of these big concert/endorphimne induced raves, that they claim is God’s work…. mabey youth conventions would work better with a ratio of 1:1 or 2:1 teens per “pastor” (can’t think of the right word for christain role models) and be more word orninated
Paola brava said,
October 15, 2006 at 6:28 pm
JAci velasquez is in a long distance relationship with a drug dealer!!!!!
WHORE!
Scott said,
November 24, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Great topic! In my humble and maybe not worth a ton opinion, I think many of you make some good points. If you are one who seeks to live by faith in Christ then I believe there are some things in releation to camps/concerts/retreats/rallies/etc. that ought to be kept in mind.
1. At the root level, Biblical Christianity is about right relationships. Be right with God, right with oneself, and right with oneanother. If we’re going to have events, they ought to point people in that direction and not do it a “brain washing fashion” (at least no more than all the other media/movies/ and music out there promoting agendas, LOL)
2. Also, a core value of the New Testament (see Acts Chapter 2) is community. The reason so many people “crash” after these types of things is because the modern church has failed (with a big “F”) on many levels in terms of this. We all need someone to help us grow, walk along side of us, and hold us accountable. Very often the modern church processes people through and sends them on thier merry way instead of making a commitment to live life together as a community. We NEED to get back to this!
3. And I most certainly agree that there needs to be less show and more content. I also agree with the author of this blog that there is the issue of me be responsible for my own personal growth and should depend on events. Just loving your neighbor can have the huge impact.
There is merit in many events (I participate and do music at some) that have great value and lasting impact.
Again great discussion!