the musings of a quasi-badass son of a preacher man
Liberal people say this: :crazy: about conservatives.
Conservative people do this: :lalala: or this: 
in response.
Both conservatives and liberals think this: :-/ or this: |-| about moderates.
None of these things are very nice.
Why such a disconnect? Do conservative or liberal schemata defy all logic? How is it possible to miss eachother so blatantly, yet seemingly unintentionally?
Strange.
Discuss.
Liberal people say this: :crazy: about conservatives.
Conservative people do this: :lalala: or this: in response.
Both conservatives and liberals think this: :-/ or this: |-| about moderates.
None of these things are very nice.
Why such a disconnect? Do conservative or liberal schemata defy all logic? How is it possible to miss eachother so blatantly, yet seemingly unintentionally?
Strange.
Discuss.
As someone who looks in on your country from the outside, i’m so amazed at how polarized your politics are. In Canada, we have (currently) 4 major political parties; each at their place on the spectrum. I think it makes the dialogue here a lot less confrontational. It seems (from my outside perspective) that you are either this or that in your country; liberal or conservative, republican or democrat. You (not you but youuuu) even made every effot to quash Ralph Nadar in the last election because he would split the Democrats vote.
I agree McKormick. Oh, for four viable political parties.
Well, of course, the reason for this is that conservatives are evil………Ok, not really.
A lot of political reasoning is contained in the sentence “Where you stand on the issues depends a great deal on where you stand in life.” If you are wealthy, you view things differently than if you are poor. If you have a preacher telling you every week that Bush was annointed by God, you view things differently than if your preacher says you should pray about your choice.
Honestly, I believe the reason there is such a disconnect is that liberal Christians pulled out of the Church beginning in the 1970s. Rather than adding the moral weight of their words to the liberal political causes they supported, they adopted a secular liberal voice. The result is that you have one group that views things from a secular worldview and one that views it as an extremist religious worldview. The bridge group, where liberal politics and Christian theology meet and support each other, has chosen to remain silent for way too long.
Thanks for adding your voice to the growing chorus.
XT
I just thought the faces were darned funny.
I feel like I have been transported to the “coffee talk” sketch on Saturday Night Live… I’ll give you a topic, discuss amongst yourselves…
The problem is everyone is to proud to admit when the other side is making a good point or might be right about something. People need to learn about balance.
I think it’s because we keep promoting the “us vs them” mentallity. Conservatives do something stupid, liberals hate them for it because “they” are bad and conservatives let it go because “it’s one of us”. Some thing works in vice-versa. At the end of the day, we have a bunch of religious nuts teaching that liberals are evil heathens and a bunch of people who can’t stand that getting pissed at the people doing it to them. We’re too busy fighting to have any serious discussion about issues most of the time. Isn’t that why this is a “badchristian” blog anyway - conservatives are trying to throw you out of their camp as “bad” or “unchristian” because of a few disagreements?
That’s my take on it anyway - we’re polarized because we like hating each other. Which sucks for those of us who want to get along, but hey, what are we going to do about it?
It might be worth pointing out that the forces that lead to the divisiveness between conservatives and liberals are generations old, and depending on what aspect is being fought over, possibly centuries old.
If you’ll forgive a tangent, one example of this kind of generational conflict is the heated doctrinal divide between Calvinists and Restoration churches like the Church of Christ, who are very much anti-Calvinist: what happens is that rather than settling their disagreements amicably, they break off contact and each group slightly changes the phrasing of what they believe in such a way that it becomes a denial of what the other group believes. (For example, the Church of Christ teaching that God’s redemptive work finished with the crucifixion and resurrection and now our salvation is all up to us makes no sense at all except in light of centuries of disputes with Calvinist doctrines of predestination.) The next generation, usually completely oblivious to this prior conflict, is even more susceptible to division with the Other because what they were raised to believe is inherenly a negation of the beliefs of the Other; in response to this conflict, the way they express their beliefs is structured in such a way that it makes the Other even more obviously wrong, and so it goes. It’s pretty clear that a similar phenomenon happens in political discourse.
While I don’t think this excuses venom on the part of anyone involved in these sorts of conflicts, I do think it’s helpful to realize that the frustration and anger that invariably intrude on conversations between conservatives and liberals can’t be explained away by pointing to character flaws in the participants. I think the proper way to understand bridge-building is not in terms of simply being courteous like everyone should be; rather, it’s a matter of exploring our long, powerful, established mutual heritage of acrimony and working to undercut it. It’s not just extending the olive branch, it’s destroying a powerful, destructive edifice that’s bigger than all of us put together. (Christians could talk about this in terms of overcoming principalities and powers; this legacy is a power if anything is.)
This is the same sort of paradigm that I think would be helpful in approaching relations between the Western world and the Middle East; that relationship has never fully recovered from the Crusades.
I know this is way late, but I’ve been in the hospital so forgive me for just now posting it.I just wanted to say I like your blog and read it when I get the chance.I had some thoughts on an old blog entry of yours. It has to do with christians and swearing and whether it’s really a big deal or not. You said that it was ok if someone had something to contribute along these lines of thought.I have thought alot about cussing christians and at times (when I’m really really mad)I become one. So let me say that my words are not sent to you in judgement. Also let me say now that in my efforts to convey my thoughts on swearing I will mention the book that christians are supposed to read, but I promise not to quote it or start naming chapters and verses. I must talk some about the Bible because that is where the story of christians started.
You said that words were very important to you. That is good to hear you say that. I believe they are too.If I understand the Bible, it says that Jesus was God’s word. So words seem to be extremely important. And anyone who has read the Bible must surely understand that the story of Jesus is the most important story in the Bible. One of the responses to your blog mentioned the fact that Jesus might have cussed at the moneychangers. I don’t know if he did or not , but I believe He was mad enough. What He did say was probably not pleasant. I also think that whatever He said in anger was directed specifically at someone and not just at things in general. But, I don’t know of any other time Jesus was this angry. I think I remember reading about times when He rebuked people, but I wouldn’t say that He cursed them.
In reading your blog it seems that your cursing is not directed at anyone in particular or even said in anger so you wonder, where is the harm. You sound like a good hearted individual with a great deal of intelligence so I hope you would consider this.
Most of the words that our society considers cuss words describe something negative, and most of them have to do with bodily functions. While bodily functions are a normal fact of life, the products of our bodily functions are mostly negative, such as urine and feces. And lengthy or repeated discussions about bodily funtions are considered by most people to be immature. Just think of all the jokes we laughed at as kids that had something to do with farts, or shit, or sex. In no way am I trying to say that you are immature, but I do believe that the words that a person uses, says a lot about that person. It sounds like you use cuss words because of the shock that it probably gets from many closed minded christians. Perhaps it’s your way of rebelling against this closed mindedness that causes stagnation in many churches. You use the words fuck, damn, shit, ass, piss,etc. Most of them have only one meaning, and that meaning has probably been the same for a long time, even if the words are derived from other older languages. Shit and damn are two words that I know of only one meaning for. To damn someone or something is to wish bad things on someone or something. And most of the time the word is used in anger. Even if it is not used in anger, it still is used to describe something in a negative way. Bible quoters will tell you that a good christian should be positive in there speech and demeanor, not negative. Bible quoters bore me but they do have a good point on the positive speech part. If I am a christian, and I am supposed to tell others about Jesus I think I should use mostly positive words.
If I am around other christians, even ones that cuss, I prefer to be around the christians who don’t use so many negative words. Shit is the other word that seems to have only one meaning, and it is definitely not a positive one. The word shit is also often used in anger or to wish something bad on someone. Like “shit on you.”
It seems the word fuck might have several meanings in todays culture and one of the meanings could be positive. If fuck means having consentual sex and the matter of pregnancy and disease is considered, then that’s gotta be a positive. But as with damn and shit, fuck can be used to wish something bad on someone. “Fuck you” is often said in extreme anger. The person saying “fuck you” usually means that they wish you to have unconsentual sex because unconsentual sex is not a good thing. It is sometimes considered rape. So if I hear some say “fuck you”, then I assume they are meaning “rape you.” The word fuck can also be used to describe some people. Someone can be called a “dumb fuck” or a “dumb fucker” (both negative things). Someone can be a “fuckhead” which is the same as an “asshole”. Someone can be a “motherfucker” and this does not mean they are having sex with a mother.
As I said earlier, the words a person uses says alot about that person. People who use alot of negative words sometimes come across as angry or rebellious. Anger and rebellion are not necessarily negative. They can motivate good hearted people to change things. But I believe that anger and rebellion can be expressed in words that are not swear words. The swear words usually come out of a person when their emotions are controlling their mouth. Their reasoning is being overcome by their emotion and that emotion is almost always anger. Anger is usually accompanied by bitterness and bitterness makes for a lousy christian.
The cussing you do seems to say you might be somewhat irritated not angry. Or that you cuss because its your way of rebelling against the closed minded christians you have met. There are plenty of those.
All I am trying to say is that most of our swear words imply something negative and that just seems to go against the “good news” in the Bible.
Those closed minded people are not going to read your blog if they see all those cuss words and they just might be the ones who should read your blog. If cussing is your thing then I say go for it. Just remember the power that words can wield.
Thanks for listening,
Twocheck
McKormick said,
March 24, 2005 at 10:18 pm
As someone who looks in on your country from the outside, i’m so amazed at how polarized your politics are. In Canada, we have (currently) 4 major political parties; each at their place on the spectrum. I think it makes the dialogue here a lot less confrontational. It seems (from my outside perspective) that you are either this or that in your country; liberal or conservative, republican or democrat. You (not you but youuuu) even made every effot to quash Ralph Nadar in the last election because he would split the Democrats vote.
Brandon said,
March 24, 2005 at 10:29 pm
I agree McKormick. Oh, for four viable political parties.
Xpatriated Texan said,
March 25, 2005 at 8:50 am
Well, of course, the reason for this is that conservatives are evil………Ok, not really.
A lot of political reasoning is contained in the sentence “Where you stand on the issues depends a great deal on where you stand in life.” If you are wealthy, you view things differently than if you are poor. If you have a preacher telling you every week that Bush was annointed by God, you view things differently than if your preacher says you should pray about your choice.
Honestly, I believe the reason there is such a disconnect is that liberal Christians pulled out of the Church beginning in the 1970s. Rather than adding the moral weight of their words to the liberal political causes they supported, they adopted a secular liberal voice. The result is that you have one group that views things from a secular worldview and one that views it as an extremist religious worldview. The bridge group, where liberal politics and Christian theology meet and support each other, has chosen to remain silent for way too long.
Thanks for adding your voice to the growing chorus.
XT
othniel said,
March 25, 2005 at 9:59 am
I just thought the faces were darned funny.
Jason said,
March 25, 2005 at 2:06 pm
I feel like I have been transported to the “coffee talk” sketch on Saturday Night Live… I’ll give you a topic, discuss amongst yourselves…
J.R. said,
March 25, 2005 at 7:51 pm
The problem is everyone is to proud to admit when the other side is making a good point or might be right about something. People need to learn about balance.
Danny said,
March 26, 2005 at 2:30 am
I think it’s because we keep promoting the “us vs them” mentallity. Conservatives do something stupid, liberals hate them for it because “they” are bad and conservatives let it go because “it’s one of us”. Some thing works in vice-versa. At the end of the day, we have a bunch of religious nuts teaching that liberals are evil heathens and a bunch of people who can’t stand that getting pissed at the people doing it to them. We’re too busy fighting to have any serious discussion about issues most of the time. Isn’t that why this is a “badchristian” blog anyway - conservatives are trying to throw you out of their camp as “bad” or “unchristian” because of a few disagreements?
That’s my take on it anyway - we’re polarized because we like hating each other. Which sucks for those of us who want to get along, but hey, what are we going to do about it?
Resident Atheist said,
March 26, 2005 at 6:27 pm
It might be worth pointing out that the forces that lead to the divisiveness between conservatives and liberals are generations old, and depending on what aspect is being fought over, possibly centuries old.
If you’ll forgive a tangent, one example of this kind of generational conflict is the heated doctrinal divide between Calvinists and Restoration churches like the Church of Christ, who are very much anti-Calvinist: what happens is that rather than settling their disagreements amicably, they break off contact and each group slightly changes the phrasing of what they believe in such a way that it becomes a denial of what the other group believes. (For example, the Church of Christ teaching that God’s redemptive work finished with the crucifixion and resurrection and now our salvation is all up to us makes no sense at all except in light of centuries of disputes with Calvinist doctrines of predestination.) The next generation, usually completely oblivious to this prior conflict, is even more susceptible to division with the Other because what they were raised to believe is inherenly a negation of the beliefs of the Other; in response to this conflict, the way they express their beliefs is structured in such a way that it makes the Other even more obviously wrong, and so it goes. It’s pretty clear that a similar phenomenon happens in political discourse.
While I don’t think this excuses venom on the part of anyone involved in these sorts of conflicts, I do think it’s helpful to realize that the frustration and anger that invariably intrude on conversations between conservatives and liberals can’t be explained away by pointing to character flaws in the participants. I think the proper way to understand bridge-building is not in terms of simply being courteous like everyone should be; rather, it’s a matter of exploring our long, powerful, established mutual heritage of acrimony and working to undercut it. It’s not just extending the olive branch, it’s destroying a powerful, destructive edifice that’s bigger than all of us put together. (Christians could talk about this in terms of overcoming principalities and powers; this legacy is a power if anything is.)
This is the same sort of paradigm that I think would be helpful in approaching relations between the Western world and the Middle East; that relationship has never fully recovered from the Crusades.
Twocheck said,
April 4, 2005 at 11:05 pm
I know this is way late, but I’ve been in the hospital so forgive me for just now posting it.I just wanted to say I like your blog and read it when I get the chance.I had some thoughts on an old blog entry of yours. It has to do with christians and swearing and whether it’s really a big deal or not. You said that it was ok if someone had something to contribute along these lines of thought.I have thought alot about cussing christians and at times (when I’m really really mad)I become one. So let me say that my words are not sent to you in judgement. Also let me say now that in my efforts to convey my thoughts on swearing I will mention the book that christians are supposed to read, but I promise not to quote it or start naming chapters and verses. I must talk some about the Bible because that is where the story of christians started.
You said that words were very important to you. That is good to hear you say that. I believe they are too.If I understand the Bible, it says that Jesus was God’s word. So words seem to be extremely important. And anyone who has read the Bible must surely understand that the story of Jesus is the most important story in the Bible. One of the responses to your blog mentioned the fact that Jesus might have cussed at the moneychangers. I don’t know if he did or not , but I believe He was mad enough. What He did say was probably not pleasant. I also think that whatever He said in anger was directed specifically at someone and not just at things in general. But, I don’t know of any other time Jesus was this angry. I think I remember reading about times when He rebuked people, but I wouldn’t say that He cursed them.
In reading your blog it seems that your cursing is not directed at anyone in particular or even said in anger so you wonder, where is the harm. You sound like a good hearted individual with a great deal of intelligence so I hope you would consider this.
Most of the words that our society considers cuss words describe something negative, and most of them have to do with bodily functions. While bodily functions are a normal fact of life, the products of our bodily functions are mostly negative, such as urine and feces. And lengthy or repeated discussions about bodily funtions are considered by most people to be immature. Just think of all the jokes we laughed at as kids that had something to do with farts, or shit, or sex. In no way am I trying to say that you are immature, but I do believe that the words that a person uses, says a lot about that person. It sounds like you use cuss words because of the shock that it probably gets from many closed minded christians. Perhaps it’s your way of rebelling against this closed mindedness that causes stagnation in many churches. You use the words fuck, damn, shit, ass, piss,etc. Most of them have only one meaning, and that meaning has probably been the same for a long time, even if the words are derived from other older languages. Shit and damn are two words that I know of only one meaning for. To damn someone or something is to wish bad things on someone or something. And most of the time the word is used in anger. Even if it is not used in anger, it still is used to describe something in a negative way. Bible quoters will tell you that a good christian should be positive in there speech and demeanor, not negative. Bible quoters bore me but they do have a good point on the positive speech part. If I am a christian, and I am supposed to tell others about Jesus I think I should use mostly positive words.
If I am around other christians, even ones that cuss, I prefer to be around the christians who don’t use so many negative words. Shit is the other word that seems to have only one meaning, and it is definitely not a positive one. The word shit is also often used in anger or to wish something bad on someone. Like “shit on you.”
It seems the word fuck might have several meanings in todays culture and one of the meanings could be positive. If fuck means having consentual sex and the matter of pregnancy and disease is considered, then that’s gotta be a positive. But as with damn and shit, fuck can be used to wish something bad on someone. “Fuck you” is often said in extreme anger. The person saying “fuck you” usually means that they wish you to have unconsentual sex because unconsentual sex is not a good thing. It is sometimes considered rape. So if I hear some say “fuck you”, then I assume they are meaning “rape you.” The word fuck can also be used to describe some people. Someone can be called a “dumb fuck” or a “dumb fucker” (both negative things). Someone can be a “fuckhead” which is the same as an “asshole”. Someone can be a “motherfucker” and this does not mean they are having sex with a mother.
As I said earlier, the words a person uses says alot about that person. People who use alot of negative words sometimes come across as angry or rebellious. Anger and rebellion are not necessarily negative. They can motivate good hearted people to change things. But I believe that anger and rebellion can be expressed in words that are not swear words. The swear words usually come out of a person when their emotions are controlling their mouth. Their reasoning is being overcome by their emotion and that emotion is almost always anger. Anger is usually accompanied by bitterness and bitterness makes for a lousy christian.
The cussing you do seems to say you might be somewhat irritated not angry. Or that you cuss because its your way of rebelling against the closed minded christians you have met. There are plenty of those.
All I am trying to say is that most of our swear words imply something negative and that just seems to go against the “good news” in the Bible.
Those closed minded people are not going to read your blog if they see all those cuss words and they just might be the ones who should read your blog. If cussing is your thing then I say go for it. Just remember the power that words can wield.
Thanks for listening,
Twocheck